I've been thinking long and hard about the conversation you two have been having and I thought to go find the actual transcripts of all these comments just to be sure I remembered everything correctly.  It's not as easy as you think.  You'd think everything is on the internet, but some things have "disappeared." I'm sure they are still out there somewhere, but I'm tired of looking.  As a result I refuse to comment on which of these men offended women the most, which offense was ok in context and which was not.  I was offended as by Limbaugh's remarks, as were a lot of women.  I don't know if Maher and Schultz offended a lot women or just their intended targets.  People were offended.  Apologies are warranted.

In the end, I think I come back to Erin's comment earlier in the stream in that we have to remember that the receiver in the commentary actually helps determine the offense.  We see that in schools with bullying.  If the receiver is afraid and feels threatened, then it's bullying, regardless of intent.

The same is true with offensive language.  It's not always 100% clear what people will find offensive.  I've had an interesting discussion with some younger people on facebook regarding this post in which a young woman has posited that her generation is going to change the meaning of slut so that it is no longer an insult, but rather a term of female empowerment.  I imagine she would feel less offended by the word slut.

As a result, I think you are both right.  I do think that we cross lines on occasion and although we may not intend to offend (or maybe we do), we have to apologize regardless.  And sincerely.  But I also think you are right Page.  There are some lines we all know we should not cross and if we do so, we should expect to offend and must accept the consequences.

I certainly agree that children must always be protected.  But there is also this belief that adults must be able to defend themselves. I actually reject that premise.  Why do I have to defend myself rather than my position when I disagree with you?  Our discourse has become so toxic that we no longer debate, but attack each other personally rather than on the merits of our position.  And there is no longer any chance for middle ground or the idea that we will agree to disagree, a practice that adults often achieve because they must live and work together.

I want us to get back to the business of leadership in this country, in government, in communities, and in our homes.  One of my students commented that the best she could do is lead by example.  I hope this is happening right here,  This is what is looks like when adults discuss a problem, remain on point, and disagree without denigration.

Thank you both for your thoughts.